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Racism is good for ratings

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Is calling someone who is brown – ‘ the Indian’ – a racist comment?
Is mimicking an Indian accent racist?

Other comments!
Put the scabs in her curry
Indians can’t eat – thats why they are skinny!
Indians can only eat with their hands!
Indians cant cook, they get skinny from food poisening.
I hate that pakistani.

Ofcom have received 2000 complaints.

Yes, I am talking about Big Brother. And yes before you all start, I know that it is full of hideous caricatures – it is still exceptional this year in understanding the worse kind of ‘lord of the flies’ group bullying and racism. channel 4 – the high brow channel – love it. Their ratings are up. The radio and papers are talking about it.

As a British Asian, I am getting bored with this social experiment – a load of racist chavs picking on a bollywood actress and slowly pick her personality apart and totally assasinate her character.

yeah, yeah, i know what you are going to say – switch it off. i will now. watching it last night made me very sick and very angry.
very depressed.

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Written by fullenglish1

January 16, 2007 at 10:24 am

37 Responses

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  1. Please excuse the rant, just had a liquid lunch!

    Firstly, all reality TV is the work of Satan (unless it’s the news or a documentary). I watch TV for escapism, I live in reality. However the missus likes it and for the sake of spending more time with her I watched the new Celeb BB too.

    I stopped watching it about five minutes after the Baddies (er sorry… Goodys) joined. I’ve always said the problem with the format is that unless the contestants are celebrities then there seems little point in the whole exercise, otherwise you might as well spend two weeks in the pub observing people (something I do regularly anyway!).

    Jade Goody is not a celebrity in any sense I understand. She is a very dull and remarkably stupid person who the public enjoy observing because she makes them feel better about themselves. This kind of car-crash TV is so lowest denominator. Yeah it’s vaguely entertaining but so is bare-knuckle fighting and I don’t see anyone trying to get that into the schedules.

    I immediately warmed to Shilpa but the more I watched the more I disliked her anyway. She seems way too self-involved and should just tell the prole twats to get fucked instead of taking their views so seriously.

    In answer to your post, and with respect, referring to someone as brown is not necassarily rascist. By definition I am white even though my skin tone is probably nearer brown. It’s just the way we distinguish people and as long as there is no baggage going along with that then I don’t see a problem. Originally, the Native Americans called us paleface and we called them redskin not because they thought we were cunts or vice versa but because it was and still is a useful way of identifying each other. It is easier to define the thing which marks us as ‘different’ from what we consider to be the norm. In my case you might say “He’s fat” or “…has a beard”. But if I was in India I would have no problem with someone saying instead “He’s white”. It becomes a problem when people say “He’s white/brown/black/yellow and I hate him because of that”.

    I also don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with taking the piss out of each other’s accents. Amongst my group of friends are a Scot and a Scouse and they get ribbed endlessly (as do I for being posh) but therein lies the point. If we make fun of the differences between us then not only does it allow us to maintain these differences but it also brings us closer together. It all changes when someone says “His accent is different from mine therefore I don’t like him”.

    In the case of BB, I have the impression that the revolting pond life that Shrek is going out with is a dirty, little, rascist cunt and her mother is worse (“Do you live in a shack?”). The worst part of all this is the fact that Indian’s will see these neanderthal shags and think it represents the views of the English, which I most certainly hope it does not. If it does, then it’s time for action.

    As the incomparable Linton Kwesi Johnston so eloquently put it…

    “We’re going to smash their brains in,
    Because they ain’t got nuffin’ in ’em!”

    iamjack'simpotentrage

    January 16, 2007 at 4:35 pm

  2. Racism is a biased term intentionally weighted in favour of the immigrants, jewish in this case, who invented the concept. People who hate dogs don’t hate dogs because they are dogs they hate dogs because they smell, bark all day or shit on the pavement. The term racism puts the blame on the victim. If I went to live in an igloo and offended all the eskimos would that be *their* problem? I don’t think so.

    Anonymous

    January 17, 2007 at 2:38 am

  3. Is this a joke entry? Designed to get people going ‘Andy Kaufman’ style?
    It must be.

    Yeahbutnobut

    January 17, 2007 at 10:28 am

  4. Sorry, just how did Jews invent the concept of rascism? I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard anything so ignorant, no wonder you posted anonymously.

    People who hate dogs generally hate them because they’re scared of them (and pussies they are for it) not because they smell or bark. They might try and justify their pathetic feelings by suggesting that the dog is somehow to blame for their own fear for being smelly or barking or shitting on the pavement (for which their owners are 100% responsible by the way).

    In the same way ignorant, rascist cunts try and defend their backward views by saying that immigrants are smelly or eat with their hands or talk with accents they can’t understand. Hatred is almost always born out of ignorance and fear.

    As for your Eskimo scenario, you are assuming that immigrants are somehow offending everyone. Well I’m only speaking for myself and everyone I know but I’m not aware of that being the case.

    By the way, I’m sorry if I’ve somehow misunderstood your point, I hope I have because you sound like a self-justifying rascist to me… if I have I aplologise. However, if as I suspect I have not, then the fact you posted anonymously suggests to me that deep down you know your views are full of shit and you are right to be ashamed of them.

    iamjack'simpotentrage

    January 17, 2007 at 10:31 am

  5. anonymous – I have read and re-read your post hoping that I have misunderstood something, or that i may be misinterpreting your comment. The more I read it the worse it gets.

    Why dont you go and live in an igloo!

    Impotentrage – If I met a stranger who spoke in a strong welsh, scottish or Indian accent, and i started to mimic their accent, i would say that that verges on racism.

    Essentially, how well you know someone, in my book, kind of disctates where the line is. In the environment of the Big brother house, I certainly wouldnt take the piss out of Shilpas accent, after only meeting her for a few days. That is racism. especially so, as she is not a british Born indian, and so would not necessarily have as great an apreciation of our english sense of humour.

    very glad that a few of the housemates have received death threats.

    Full-english

    January 17, 2007 at 11:48 am

  6. This is really not clear cut for me. I go from thinking it’s racism to not and so forth. I guess the issue for me is that it’s not outright ‘you Black bastard’ racism that makes it so borderline for me. I keep thinking these girls are just jelous of her fit body rather than think she is dirty or sub-human but who knows… Putting all this into contect, 3 chav twats looking for something to bind them all together. I suspect if they had less time on their hands this may not have happened.

    It’s clear however that there are people out there who want to jump on the racist bandwagon, example: last week Jade’s boyfriend said something in bed that was censored. Some jumped to the conclusion he said ‘Paki’ when in actual fact he said ‘Cunt’.

    What’s my point? I guess i’m just reiterating what’s been said before. What we are seeing is definately childish bullying and may be borderline racism but it seems some people are on a mission to…well I’m not sure what actually…perhaps ban Big Brother? which is like banning the news because I don’t like what I see or perhaps they are under some delusion that our society has no issue with race, class or even gender.

    As they say, art reflects life and what we are seeing is the kind of thing you may see on the outside if you stick 3 white English chavs in a flat with a stush Indian girl.

    I just hope this means Jade will sell less magazines and therefore make less money – perhaps then we won’t have to look at her ugly mug.

    As for Mr Anonymous – sounds like a serial killer waiting to grow up!

    Chairmanofthebored

    January 17, 2007 at 2:09 pm

  7. full english – I entirely agree. I wasn’t advocating mimicking the accent’s of total strangers… imagine how long you’d last in London doing that!! I have been in situations where I have bantered with total strangers about cultural differences however and that tends to be a great ice breaker. Again there’s a limit to where you should go with it but if you demonstrate to someone that you know a little bit about their culture then generally that in itself is complimentary and as long as you are happy to have your own culture lampooned in return then I think it is quite healthy.

    That’s clearly not what’s going on in the Celebrity Pig Fucker house. I saw some of it on a chat show earlier and I cringed… these pondlife are so staggeringly ignorant. That also seems to be chairman’s point I think. I’m not sure either if what we are witnessing is overtly rascist so much as it’s just so fucking ignorant and puerile.

    I mean… “Do they eat with their hands in India or is that China?”… to reach puberty and have to ask that would be worrying enough but these people have acheived celebrity and must have traveled out of England at some point (at the very least have they not used chopsticks before?).

    I must admit to being genuinely surprised by the level of ignorance that’s been displayed by a number of people on that show because it has to reflect on society in general and I’d assumed we had all moved on a bit over the last couple of decades. Oh well, once again my faith in humanity diminshes.

    I really, really hate reality shows, they’re like televisual mogadon. Every other programme seems to be some variation on it now and they are all so fucking bland. If it wasn’t for Attenborough, Paxman and sport I’d give ’em my license back.

    I notice anonymous hasn’t contributed anything more to the debate… mind you with all that knuckle-dragging maybe it gets hard to type!

    iamjack'simpotentrage

    January 17, 2007 at 4:40 pm

  8. So what you are saying is that it all depends on the relationship you have with the person you are talking to.
    So I can say to my you lot (my friends!):
    “Fuck! I do not believe in God! I swear by all of you vagabonds, niggers, heretics, kikes and camel-jockeys, for you are the only friends I ever have.”
    Sorry, I just love that quote!
    Naturally this is helped by the proxomity you have to another culture so an Englishman might feel comfortable taking the piss out of a Scot before out of a Nigerian, likewise a Punjabi would often feel it easy to take the piss out of a Gudgi…

    igotlife

    January 17, 2007 at 6:23 pm

  9. Mr chairman – pretty much agree with what you are saying.

    Just a couple of things:

    1) Youtube had a video of Jade’s boyfriend actually saying paki and not cunt. The Guardian media blog had a link to it, which when clicked on took you to where the footage on the site should have been. Instead, Youtube had a message saying ‘this video has now been removed.’ If I were the producer of BB, then I would deny he said paki as well – which would then force me to actually take some action. This way, i can keep the racist in, and keep my ratings up, so I can get a meatier CV and that audience figures bonus.

    2)Initially, I was like you Mr Chairman, and I oscillated between wheher this was actual racism or just playground bullying and non race based victimisation. I am now convinced it is racism. All the things that have been said and done – all the comments i wrote at the start of this blog, are inherently racist.
    Refusing to call someone by their name, but by their nationality – Indian, is racist. Pure and simple.
    The argument about old fashioned brute racism – “fuck off out of my country you smelly paki”, is kind of irrelevant. Personally, if slightly irrelevant to the discussion, I am happy handling that kind of racism – its easier to deal with. However, what shilpa is getting is the worse kind. The mumbled words, the quiet conversations, the looks, all culminate in the worst and insidious kind of racism that is very hard to combat and overcome.
    Lets not jump on the racist bandwagon, but at the same time, lets not try and justify intelligence and lack of, as a reason why it is not racism but just ignorance. The two make excellent bedfellows.

    Its also interesting, that while Tony Blair and Keith Vaz talk about bb in parliment, and Gordon brown fields questions about BB in India, instead of securing trade and securing British jobs, Channel 4 are leveraging off their many years of liberal and left wing programming to claim that what is going on in the House is not racist or “overtly” racist. What a load of bollocks. Lets all just be covert racists then!!!

    They also justify their inaction on the fact that shilpa has not complained. that is a pathetic and unsound argument. Any shrink or even sensible adult would tell you that victims of bullying often do not speak out to anyone about their experiences. Even the ones who sadly take their own lives as a result.

    Full-english

    January 17, 2007 at 6:45 pm

  10. Fair play Full English. I can see where you are coming from. It’s not right to bully and to say the ignorant things they are saying but what do we expect BB to do?

    The big brother house is an environment with adults who have all gone in of their own free will. They could also never have thought race would come into it given Jermain is the house and the fact that Jade is mixed race.

    For this reason (and because it makes good viewing) they try to get the housemates to deal with issues in the house, within the rules.

    I think it’s probably, what with Police visiting the studios to review tapes, that some action will now be taken. That action may be some warning etc. For ratings, i’d show some of their conversations on the plasma when they are all eating. We could even have a MONTAGE (even Rocky had a montage) of conversations and see how they all handle it.

    I digress a little but a warning of some sort is more probable. The other option which was to censor it for me doesn’t work.

    For me, warts and all is best as that way you see it at it is and beyond scoulding them and highlighting their stupidity is all they can do and they probebly will.

    I feel as though there’s a fair amount of anger towards the show’s producers and i’m not really feeling that. I like channel Four and rate it on the whole as a provider of entertainment. Have you seen what the spanish have to watch?

    Anyway, did you guys hear that Janet Street-Porter’s neighbour got her arrested today for allegedly being ‘racist’?

    Chairmanofthebored

    January 17, 2007 at 7:54 pm

  11. well said chairman, well said.

    Its weird about Janet street Porter. Wasnt she married to Normski? Was her neighbour Afro carribean or asian. without launching on another tangent, its funny how white people can be completely okay with one colour of people, lets say black, but hate brown people – and then still think that becuase they have black friends, that they are not racist.And every race does it, white browns blacks, reds greens and blue.

    maybe janet street porter neighbour was chinese.

    i have a theory that anonymous and igotlife are the one and the same.

    Full-english

    January 17, 2007 at 8:39 pm

  12. …if so he’s lost it. Anyway, big brother is coming on and I want to brush up on my racist bully talk…see ya

    Chairmanofthebored

    January 17, 2007 at 9:00 pm

  13. not impressed with the scenes of Indians burning effigies of BB producers! whats all that about??
    isnt this being taking a bit too far?
    the goodies will be mocked as racists for the rest of their lives – jade has fucked up her career.
    Don’t really see what BB are supposed to do about it – its realisty TV.
    Let society judge with how the Goodies are treated…

    igotlife

    January 17, 2007 at 9:06 pm

  14. Indians always burn effigies. its a hobby, like stamp collecting and train spotting.
    Sometimes, they burn each other, especially when they loose at cricket.

    The goodies are great, and so was mind your language.

    Full-english

    January 17, 2007 at 10:07 pm

  15. It isn’t racist to call someone by their nationality. Surely she takes pride in being an Indian?

    If I was called Cafuck as a play on Canuck I would laugh at my friends and take offense at a stranger but I wouldn’t think I’d been racially abused– and they haven’t even said that.. they’ve done the equivalent of calling me Canadian… Guess what, I AM. Or a brit, or what’s that the Aussies say, Limey?

    Many Indians do eat with their hands. I was brought up eating with my hands. Just because one culture looks down on it doesn’t make it barbaric! Actually it’s cleaner but you wouldn’t know it. That they can ONLY eat with their hands is ignorant and could be nicely corrected- education for the BB audience. And Chinese eat with sticks… which is kinda half way in between. They also like to eat the embryos inside eggs. Many Indians are vegetarian.

    India is a divided country and has many poor, underfed people. It also has many incredibly rich and educated people. It is diverse. We say american’s are fat and redneck. Is that racist? No. It’s a stereotype. Many Indians are in fact skinny and have nothing to eat. Quite a few are blind and there are charities trying to fix that.

    Skinny from food poisoning is ignorance again, but as any westerner who goes to India will tell you, it’s 80% chance of getting skinny from “foodpoisoning” so it’s not actually as ignorant as it sounds. It’s a fact that is again generalised and then misapplied. But it is true.

    I hate that pakistani is the only comment that comes close to racism and it is again not a known racist term. It is a rude way of saying she is not worth noticing.

    What we have are very easily shown to be simple, pathetic, ignorant attempts at bullying.

    Is APU on Simpsons a racist character because he has an Indian accent? I think accents are like cultural identifiers. They can be done gently or harshly (like wearing and afro to a party to mimic Blackspoiltation films). It can be racist but isn’t necessarily so.

    I’m sorry, once again the Indian ego has flared. It is the ego that says ignore and attack as a villain anyone who says anything negative.

    Indians do burn effigies at the drop of a hat. It’s funny all it takes is 10 guys burning something to create an international event. We should try burning an effigy of some irrelevant person.

    Just for the record I don’t watch Big Brother. I’m upset it is now on my blog, on my news, on my internet, and in my life. But here you go, stop moaning about it.

    I watched 10 minutes because a friend insisted on catching up and guess what, there were two housemates being very supportive and encouraging of Shilpa, why doesn’t anyone talk about that?

    Our highest politicians have paid attention, the nation is upset and worried in a very scary Political Correctness gone wild kind of way but everyone is also confused… why, because it’s not racism. Be proud this country is so worried about it, but anyone who wants me to feel guilty for 3 slags on a gaudy reality show being bullies to some drama and exposure loving irrelevant actress can fuck off.

    And for the record people have a hard time with my name so I make it easy and give them a nickname. It’s not racist to find it hard to say foreign names. It’s just another fact. I’d have named her Shilly for the duration of the show.

    Poxinfinite

    January 18, 2007 at 11:41 am

  16. I agree with you Poxinfinite, this is a classic case of small minded – nasty – girls ganging up on the pretty one – bullying. They pick on anything they can to be really horrible, and the fact that Shilpa is Indian means its the easiest thing for them to be nasty about. We’re not dealing with high-intellect individuals here. If Shilpa had no obvious culture they’d probably attack her on her accent, where she lived, where she worked, her weight, what she wore, how her hair was cut. In fact, just about everything they’re critisizing her for already, but because she’s Indian the race card gets played and they also bring in all the ignorant stereotyping they can. They’re nasty bullies who haven’t grown out of the school playground.

    Queen of Swords

    January 18, 2007 at 12:30 pm

  17. Poxinfinite.
    I apologise if I have posted a comment about Big Brother on your blog. I should have checked with you first. Or maybe I should have written some long tedious poem, amply demonstrating my understanding of iambic pentameter. I must be more high brow!!!

    The points I a trying to talk about are racism and the perception of Uk and UK culture from the outside world.

    You have referred to some specific examples and built a case as to why you thin this is not racism. I woud like to challenge you.

    First, you admit to not watching Big brother, yet you speak with such authority about what you see as ignorance and not racism, although both go hand in hand.

    So,lets try and give your comments some context. If someone calls me an Indian lets say they are white, lets say i hardly know them, and they refuse to call me by my name – then I would argue that this person may potentially be racist.
    I wouldnt condemn them straight away, but I would be weary.
    Calling you a Canadian is different. Why? Because, in my humble pinion, canadians have not ben victimised or targeted as an immigrant community in this country. I don’t recall there were any signs on the front of guest houses in the 50’s and 60’s saying, no Blacks or Canadians. You are also white, so that adds a different element to someone calling you Canadian, or calling me Indian. Pox – if you had seen the way she was calling Shilpa “that Indian”, I think you would know excatly what I mean. When she was challenged about it, she said that she had a problem saying peoples’ names although she actually managed to say everyone elses perfectly well.

    2)When one of the Housemates says indians are skinny because they cant cook and they get food poisoning, she was not referring to what you are suggesting, which is holiday makers getting dehli belly. She was stating her superiority that indians cant cook – full stop.

    Last night, presumably in the 10 minutes that you didnt see, one of the housemates said of shilpa – why doesnt she just go home, she cant speak english properly away”

    You look at all of these isolation, and then pronounce judgement – it is ignorance and not racism. In my opinion, all these combined build a nasty picture and damning case of racism.

    Finally, fuck you and fuck your patronising “Indian ego” remark, as though you think you have some insight into India or Indians.
    How fucking dare you?

    If I see racism, any type of racism I will challenge it, and fight against it. I certainly won’t pretend its not happening, or try to call it something else.
    You are just as bad as them.

    Full-english

    January 18, 2007 at 6:55 pm

  18. fullenglish – I agree that the Indian/Canadian thing is different…but what I dont understand is how ‘people from the sub-continent’ can be getting on their high horse about this so much when they are notoriously racist towards black people? And more specifically, Indians who are vitriolic in their condemnation of Pakistanis??
    Its a complex issue and there are no simple rules or answers.
    The Goodies are twats.
    Its more worrying that on the aftershow they apparently get a lot of support.
    We’re all racist to varying degrees.
    It isnt Channel 4’s fault.
    What is more surprising is that in all the BBs that have been so far this is the FIRST incidence of racism and it still isnt overt.
    BB has done more good than bad and the country should come out of this stronger and better for the experience.

    igotlife

    January 19, 2007 at 9:39 am

  19. Wow there Full english…I think you are getting a little carried away with all this. The manner in which you attack pox for his views is a little too ‘Goodyesque’.

    It is racism, it is deplorable, they are all very ignorant and perhaps represent a part of British society we would all rather forget exists but beyond that what do you want to happen?

    The racism experienced by all immigrants to this country is regretable but inevitable. It’s the same all over. If Canadians emigrated to India in numbers, provided cheaper labour and made an impact in society, they too would be the victims of discrimination in much the same way.

    I hope to see Jade come out on Friday. I hope to not see her in magazines like Grazia, Hello, Heat, closer and all the other trash consumed by most young females who essentially provide a platform for celebrity to exist.

    It makes me laugh to see women complain about this but then rush out to buy these trashy titles to get the inside story on the latest diet or fashion, swithcing on to sky to see Jades programs or buying her perfume.

    Isn’t it about time to look at this celebrity status for doing nothing and perhaps educating our daughters ini to not buying into morons and their latest wallpaper?

    Chairmanofthebored

    January 19, 2007 at 10:09 am

  20. Full English:

    Firstly, although I don’t like conversations about BB, I am still involved in it. It is also not my place to tell anyone what they can or cannot post. I never said that it wasn’t your right to post an article on BB, I just said it made me sick.

    I recall getting vitriol for posting a high brow romantic poem. I laughed because it was my right to post such a thing, and others right to say they liked, didn’t like, or thought it shouldn’t be here.

    So I don’t appreciate the self pity or the suggestion I would want to censor this blog or control it. I don’t.

    I appreciated your well crafted argument and I could better understand why you see it as racism.

    I made my argument on the basis of the information provided inside the blog, and by the new reports covering the event. This was perfectly reasonable from an argument perspective since you provided the premises on which you built your own conclusions. I took those and pointed out that your conclusions were flawed. You have now addressed this with more context and I am willing to accept that they crossed the line from crass ignorant bullying to racism.

    However, Shilpa herself has backed away from calling it racism… (that was also on the news) whereas a sponsor of BB obviously feels it is.

    Now, for the sake of further clarification. I see no reason to be “over sensitive” on points of racism just because there is a history of racism. Sure there were signs in the 50’s saying no Indians, or Chinese, maybe Blacks, whatever. Were you here in the 50’s? I don’t think so.

    In terms of telling Shilpa to go home, I see nothing inherently racist in this remark either. She is from India. If she was an immigrant it would be racist because her home would be the UK, in which case it would be racist to say her home is india because of her race.

    I don’t think we can ever get rid of racism until we begin to treat eachother as equals. Lets deal with the here and the now, because that is what we are trying to create. The reason friends are not over sensitive to one another is because we share imperfections and exposure… things we can be ridiculed for. And in that sense, being senstive due to past history doesn’t help.

    Haven’t you ever argued with your wife, and then one of you brings up some historical statement or action as proof to enflame and exaggerate a current argument? That’s what this is. It is victimhood on the basis of historical injustice.

    Shilpa should be as proud of being an Indian as I am of being a Canadian. And if there was a sign on a door saying no Canadians allowed I’d think they were the ones losing out. I would maintain my feeling of superiority in all circumstances. No one can take your dignity or pride away from you, even if they spit on you, slander you, insult you, or refuse to give you opportunities.

    That is what Ghandi proved… the little man in his dhoti, a “savage ignorant and skinny indian holy man” had more dignity in his bearing than the Queen of england. He is renowed in the world for his intellect, his insight and his strength. He had pride and self certainty, and he was able to face down an empire with that and make a legacy that will inspire and last longer in this world than the highly forgettable current Queen of England.

    It does no good to hide behind mistruths, false impressions, or ignorance when trying to be proud. India should be proud of those things it rightly has a pride to… a history of science, religion, art, politics, culture, etc etc. It can be confident of it’s current growth and place in the world. It has amazingly successful actors, business people, religious leaders etc.

    Essentially there is no reason to feel like a victim… but then that is the side of India that Indians like to show (like Canadians like to show our wilderness).

    But that doesn’t mean that when someone says we are polluting our environment, or that we mistreat our Native people, or that we don’t have much power in the world… that I then become paranoid, angry, and attack the person pointing out what are actual truths.

    There is a terrible climate of corruption in India. It has tremendous poverty to overcome. People die in the streets. Cities are filthy, especially in certain parts. The men are often abusive towards women, including tourists, especially ones who travel alone. Foreigners are likely to get Dheli Belly. And Indians have an accent that sounds funny… LIKE ALL ACCENTS. I was laughing at an Italian trying to say Saint James’s Park Station just yesterday.

    When I dimiss “Indian Ego” I dismiss it on the basis of experiencing it. It is the ego of former victims who are still trying to compensate for the loss of ego that came with being taken over and considered lower class.

    This has then spread into over sensitivity about any perceived criticism by outsiders, an entrenched internal racism combined with classism which in India can be worse than racism (still using distinctions the British loved such as paler skin, bramins, or certain ethnic groups).

    Lets just be real can’t we? Put aside the victimhood, the sensitivity.

    I know it’s hard to do because of what you yourself may have experienced and especially what previous generations of Indians have experienced… but any time a situation is exaggerated by historical context it merely fuels rejectionists.

    Goody with have an article in the sun, I predict it now: “My side of the story… how I am not a racist, and I love curry” and it will be more racist in it’s effect than anything on BB.

    On BB people can see the crass, low class, ignorance that the slags represent. No one wants to be associated with it, everyone is learning from the way Shilpa is handling herself.

    And then some Indians go and burn and effigy, and everyone is reminded that they are actually pretty uneducated, quick to anger, and still very much over sensitive victims. Thank god Shilpa herself has carried herself with class and dignity and has not exhibited this same conditioning…

    On the other hand, an Indian friend of mine doesn’t really like her because of her upper class bearing… victims like to keep their peers in the same pile of victim crap.

    Poxinfinite

    January 19, 2007 at 11:34 am

  21. Mr Chaiman – calling my comments “Goodyesque” is one of the most insulting things anyone has ever said to me. Yes, I was angry and impassioned, but if you condemn me on that alone, then I smell the stench of hypocrisy, in some of the comments you have posted these months past.

    Igotlife – yes I agree, India, has a whole host of problems, but are you saying – it is okay to be racist to Indians in the UK because Indians are racist to blacks of pakistanis. I dont think you are saying that. My issue is not what is going on in India. My issue is a simple one. Do not pass off racism as ignorance, or claim that racism is not racism. That is the heart of what I am getting across -simply within the context of the Big Brother house.
    Incidentally, the relations between the average Indian and average Pakistani are usually warm. It is the government of both countries who try to sour and distort but this does not apply to the common man in both coutries.
    However, India has a host of problems, for me the worst excesses of the caste system – but that is a seperate blog – potentially – and altogether seperate issue from what I am trying to talk about.

    Poxinfinte – Let me try and tell you why I was so angry. Your entire post seeemd to be pardoning, excusing, disguising and even pretending that this was not racism. I abhorred that. What galled me evem more, was that you were doing it from a white perspective.

    And let me tell you what it reminded me off: All the other apologists in my life, from the police to teachers who said:

    “Its only over exuberant kids chucking shit throuh your letterbox”.

    “Its only a word – they dont mean anything bad by it”

    “It was only a few lazy so and so’s who beat your father nto a pulp.”

    Igotlife – you are right, BB is a good thing, as it has aired views and opinions which are always there, and can now be discussed. So lets discuss them openly, without pretending they are something else.

    You may think I have a chip on my shoulder, an Indian ego whatever that is – sounds racist:) or a victim complex that all Indians have (even though Pox, I am English through and through,), but I will call racism racism, subtle or overt. And if having the debate (throuh the vehicle of reality TV, which Pox, you clearly find distasteful) makes this country a beter place to live in by just 1%,
    and makes it a better place for my daughter by just 1%, then that for me says it is worth it.

    Full-english

    January 19, 2007 at 2:01 pm

  22. Hyprocrisy is launching a hateful, racist attack on the whole of Australia and then complaining about racism as seen on tv.

    Chairmanofthebored

    January 19, 2007 at 2:40 pm

  23. Goody = Racist FACT

    Why is anybody surprised by her actions. She was a vile racist bully on her first appearance in BB.

    She knows full well that everything she says is picked up and people on the outside will pick it apart and she still comes out with this shit. Just imagine the kind of stuff she and her fucking tool of a boyfriend say when there isn’t 4 million people watching them.

    How anybody can even think that a comment of “go back to the slums” directed at an Indian person isn’t racist is beyond me.

    Lottery Loverat

    January 19, 2007 at 3:22 pm

  24. Mr Chairman, my australian blog was in reponse to crowd abuse and racism to english cricket players on the recent and ongoing Ashes tour.
    It was an attempt in demonstrate what it feels like when the shoe is on the other foot, what it feels like t be on the receiving end of vitriol, and not just an out and out attack just for the sake of it.
    It was tirade, but deliberately so in keeping with the style of the blog and its mission statement.
    I kinda thought you realised that at the tme.

    Full-english

    January 19, 2007 at 3:43 pm

  25. Ofcourse but…

    …just because you were trying to teach someone something does not mean it wasn’t blatant racism. I seem to remember the lesson was somewhat lost on Richard Fromberg.

    Chairmanofthebored

    January 19, 2007 at 4:03 pm

  26. Okay, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
    In the context I have explained above, it was an exercise in making a point, and therefore not racism for the sake of racism. I am not a racist.

    As I explained, my argumentative style was simply a tool to demonstrate the view from the other side of the fence.

    After the initial ruffling of feathers, I think Richard Fromberg and myself came to a mutual understanding.

    Full-english

    January 19, 2007 at 4:24 pm

  27. Full English,

    I was making a strong point as to how racism and simple bullying could be confused.

    For instance, children have thrown shit through letter boxes of many people, sometimes cuz they are old, sometimes cuz they are hated, and sometimes because that hate is racist. That doesn’t mean that in all cases, where someone is of a particular skin colour, such shit throwing is racist….

    I was elaborating on how it is easy to misconstrue a statement as racist by being of a particular race… and that it should be as important to understand what is NOT racism as it is to understand what IS racism.

    For instance, I banter around the term Indian Ego… I know what I mean by it, and it is cultural, not racial. And it pertains to those who identify with Indian culture generally, but those who are brought up in Indian culture specificially.

    For instance, I had an accident in India. A serious one in which I broke my clavical. I was picked up by the locals (Although the local Indian driver was not taken care of this way but rather left alone, and lucky not to get beaten for hitting a ricksaw)… but then I was taken in a taxi by a white person to a hospital.

    At this local clinic there was a huge mosh of people waiting. Being myself, I felt it was important to wait and not feel I was due any preference for being either a tourist or a white person. However, we soon understood there was no clear way to assess priorities, and we had to push forward. Being white and a tourist and in an accident allowed us to do this. I was well treated, and not even charged.

    I got an xray and visited the doctor. The doctor was a brahmin. He was having his bath. He made us wait 1 and a half hours while he did his bath and cleansing before making a quick check of my shoulder (without even taking my shirt off or feeling it.) He then dismissed me after 5 minutes with instruction to return to some other local hospital the next day. I didn’t mind waiting, I was rather put out that after waiting I had no clear instruction and he was particularly cold. We picked up the sling as instructed, and couldn’t figure out how to use it.

    We decided to get a second opinion and to get instruction on the sling, and visited another doctor. That doctor threw us out. He was screaming at us. He said we were insulting his very professional colleague. That we were implying that his good friend, who he had dinner with once a week was unprofessional and inadequate etc etc.

    I calmed him down. I told him I had received excellent and personal service even at the overwhelmed peasants clinic. That everyone had treated me with concern. That I was as happy with the service there as I was in Canada. That I simply didn’t know what to do with the sling, and I needed more information on my injury. This molified him, he then felt the injury, did some adjustments, put the sling on properly, explained things to me, and we were on our way. I felt much much better. A doctor had actually looked at me.

    In the event I went to Calcutta, went to an expenssive hospital, was treated beautifully by the staff, (the good thing was the hospital charged my tourist insurance company a hell of a lot to help subsidise their local work), had a doctor who trained 20 years in England, and a Surgeon who had trained 25 years in England. I had service I couldn’t have gotten off the shelf in England. At no times did I doubt this.

    I have told this elaborate story only to highlite the fact, which you know damn well, and that is that there is such a thing as the Indian Ego… it is a cultural flare up that happens when they feel particularly insulted in ways that others might not even understand or consider as an insult. Note it is CULTURAL, although passed down inside sub cultures as well so even found in England. I assess it as cultural… but it is observable… and you know damn well what I am talking about. It is visible in the pride taken in a stream of qualifications etc.

    Does noticing that make me a racist?

    If it does then I will give up on being a non-racist because generalities and stereotypes, both positive and negative are inherent parts of our thinking process and the best way to deal with them is through information.

    Apologies if I have used my observation rather more flippantly (for fun), than it could properly apply.

    And apologies for my long posts…

    Poxinfinite

    January 19, 2007 at 4:34 pm

  28. Poxinfinite
    Sorry, but i did not and do not think you are a racist.

    second, I do appreciate how sometimes racism can be confused or misinterpreted, and that debate will rage on forever, and just as it is important to clamp down on racism when you encounter it, it is equally as important not to hide behind the race card without genuine reason.
    Its clear we are on opposite sides regards what has been hapening in BB and whether we think it is racism or something else.

    Indian ego – the traits you describe as Indian ego, are I would argue common amongst many other nationalities, especially in developing countries.
    i still disgaree that there is something caled indian ego
    is there something called canadian ego. If so, what are it’s attributes?

    Full-english

    January 19, 2007 at 6:57 pm

  29. Fuck all this polite shit, that moose fucker just called my queen ‘forgettable’ (tongue wedged firmly in cheek)!

    And I’m still trying to get over Lifer saying ‘BB’ has done more good than bad. ‘BB’ as you lovingly call it is the work of Satan and all people who watch it are swimming in the filthy semen that spues from his behorned member.

    Ray Mears for Prime Minister!!!

    iamjack'simpotentrage

    January 19, 2007 at 9:26 pm

  30. Canadians are notoriously dull and also moderate and polite, and we don’t like being called Americans, and don’t really like America although we get along with Americans except when they are too loud. And we wish people would remember we had more than a million volunteers in the world wars and joined immediately both times. Those are things I think are generally true. We do have hicks in the country.

    I’d agree the “Indian Ego” may be something which is natural to other 3rd world countries who are tired of being looked down upon. I guess I’m just more familiar with what I’ve described for Indians.

    American Ego is arrogant, loud, and demanding, petulant, patriotic, and bullying. That’s what happens to most americans when they get stressed. It’s amusing to watch, even placid mellow lovely americans revert to their cultural training in heated moments.

    If you know more Canadians maybe you have a different ego to show for when we are insulted? I think we tend to go quiet or laugh it off.

    Poxinfinite

    January 19, 2007 at 11:40 pm

  31. Just in from the pub.

    China have just taken out one of their defunct weather sats (just spent 3 minutes trying to spell, you know, those things that orbit and bounce back tv and shit).

    Kill the pig, oink oink, squeal piggy squeal. Lets get over it.

    Apparently we know they could do it, they knew that we knew they could do it, but they did it any way.

    That’s like picking on a chav kid at school only to bump into him 30 years later to find out he’s The Heavyweight Campiionnnee Of The World but he also holds a Phd in Astronanivation and Quantum Phisics from Cambridge.

    Empires fall, new ones rise.

    Just as a hypothetical, if it did kick off whith China having a pop at Taiwan who thinks the US would honour their promise to protect Taiwaneise independance.
    What would be worse, if they did, or if they didn’t.

    Lottery Loverat

    January 20, 2007 at 12:42 am

  32. poxinfinite,

    A million dead Canadians, I think you mean immoral warmongers.

    Lottery Loverat

    January 20, 2007 at 12:57 am

  33. Am I the only person who thinks that Shrek’s eviction wasn’t necassarily the result of the public’s vote? Could Big Brother’s producers really have allowed the public to back her and evict Shilpa? Imagine the political fallout that would have created.

    iamjack'simpotentrage

    January 21, 2007 at 10:25 am

  34. “American Ego is arrogant, loud, and demanding, petulant, patriotic, and bullying. That’s what happens to most americans when they get stressed.”

    Hmmmmmmm.

    Gipperfan

    January 22, 2007 at 5:30 pm

  35. gipperfan – surely even the biggest yankeephile would find it difficult to deny that about the US ego?? We can all come up with a negative list of national stereotypes, but those are certainly true of the US.

    igotlife

    January 23, 2007 at 9:45 am

  36. wow – testosterone…where is it when you need it?

    Bitingstardust

    January 23, 2007 at 2:36 pm

  37. igotlife – if I don’t stop watching American Idol I might end up agreeing with you.

    Gipperfan

    January 25, 2007 at 2:55 am


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